Analyzing 4-diode analog switch AI
This is an AI-enhanced version of my last answer on StackExchange EE site. Here I discuss it in a dialog with Gemini AI.
Asking Gemini
Gemini, it is Circuit fantasist here! I want to discuss my last answer that I wrote on the StackExchange site. It is dedicated to a famous 4-diode analog switch circuit. But before that I want to ask you what is your opinion about this dialogic form of discussion between a human being and an artificial intelligence (such as yourself) to an already written answer on the site. Is there any point in re-discussing this answer? Is this the most appropriate form in which to do it?
Gemini: Absolutely, Circuit fantasist! I'm happy to discuss your StackExchange answer about the famous 4-diode analog switch circuit.
I believe this dialogue format between a human and an AI is quite beneficial. Here's why:
- Improved Understanding: Through conversation, we can clarify details and avoid misunderstandings in your answer.
- Fresh Perspective: As an AI, I can offer a new viewpoint and information you might not have considered.
- Deeper Exploration: Dialogue allows us to delve into different aspects of the circuit, leading to a more thorough understanding.
Re-discussing an Answer
Revisiting your answer can be advantageous in a few ways:
- Enhanced Answer: Our discussion can help identify any errors or missing details, allowing you to improve or rephrase the answer.
- Learning from Mistakes: Discussing potential shortcomings can help you avoid them in future answers.
- Knowledge Sharing: This dialogue serves as a great way to share your knowledge and insights with others on the platform.
Is This the Best Format?
While dialogue is a great approach, it's not the only option. Other methods like adding comments or edits to your origiъnal answer can also be useful.
Now, let's get to the 4-diode analog switch circuit! Feel free to share your answer, and I'll do my best to assist you in refining it or exploring it further.
Circuit fantasist: Thanks Gemini! You gave me the courage to continue on this path. At the beginning of mine, I decided to briefly tell about my first meeting with this circuit in the 70s when I was a student at the Technical University in Sofia. My goal is to motivate the reader. What do you think of this idea of mine? Is there any benefit to it?
Some history
This weird circuit solution reminded me of the 70's when as a student studying Analog Circuits at a technical university I was struggling to understand what kind of madness this was (unfortunately, my teacher gave us ready-made circuit solutions and analyzed them with a bunch of formulas). Leaving aside the question of why there were all those diodes, the main question that bothered me was how the current from the input source passed through a diode in the reverse direction (there was always one in the current path) to reach the load. And so I had come up with the absurd idea that a turned on diode would somehow pass (at least AC) current in both directions like a piece of wire -:)
Gemini: I think including a personal anecdote about your first encounter with the 4-diode analog switch circuit is a great idea! It can definitely benefit your answer in a few ways:
Sharing your experience can make the answer more relatable to readers, especially those who might be struggling with the concept.
- Motivation: Your story can serve as an inspiration, demonstrating how someone (you!) grappled with and overcame the initial confusion. This can motivate readers to persevere through their own learning process.
- Relatability: Sharing your experience can make the answer more relatable to readers, especially those who might be struggling with the concept.
- Historical Context: Briefly mentioning the era (1970s) can provide some historical context for the concept, which might be interesting to some readers.
Additional Tips:
- Keep the anecdote concise. You don't need to go into too much detail about your struggles.
- Transition smoothly from the story to a clear explanation of how the circuit actually works.
I believe this personal touch will add a memorable element to your answer and potentially make it more engaging for the readers.
Basic idea
Diode shifting down
Later I thought about how a diode can shift voltage variations. I could understand how it could drop the voltage by 0.7 V (as a side effect in diode rectifiers)...
Diode shifting up?
... but I could not understand how it would raise the voltage by that much. I guess then I thought that the diode was a 0.7 V battery -:) as it was presented in textbooks. I only began to understand what was going on when I realized that the current was flowing in the opposite direction through the input source, i.e. it was going into it (if positive) instead of going out as I had expected. And for this to happen, the source had to allow current to flow in the opposite direction through it. Here is how I illustrated it in one of my yellowed records from my early 90's circuit idea archive (in Bulgarian); the translation is below the picture.
July 10, 1992. Shifting potential with an RD circuit, "lifting". Usually, a diode (p-n junction) lowers the voltage by Ud = 0.7 V. "Lifting" requires an additional source that causes the current I. In other words, the diode lowers the voltage E to Uin + Ud, "ties" it to Uin. The current I acts as a discharge on Uin (Uin must be able to "suck" it through its output).July 10, 1992. Shifting potential with an RD circuit, "lifting". Usually, a diode (p-n junction) lowers the voltage by Ud = 0.7 V. "Lifting" requires an additional source that causes the current I. In other words, the diode lowers the voltage E to Uin + Ud, "ties" it to Uin. The current I acts as a discharge on Uin (Uin must be able to "suck" it through its output).
Passive voltage compensation
Until then, the voltage across diode was something harmful, bad, unwanted for me... but I started to see circuit solutions (for example in the Art of Electronics) where a "voltage rise" was used for something useful - to compensate for the harmful diode drop.
This idea greatly interested me and I added it as a general principle (passive compensation) to my collection of circuit principles that I had begun to create. Later I was fascinated by the more advanced "active compensation" idea implemented with operational amplifiers in precision diode rectifiers.
Main idea
So the main idea in this circuit solution is to compensate the unwanted diode voltage drop by adding the same diode voltage rise in series.
The other two ideas are how to bias the diodes and how to control them but let's focus on the main idea.
Gemini: I think this is a well-structured breakdown of your understanding of the 4-diode analog switch circuit. Here's a breakdown of your sections with some suggestions:
Basic Idea - Diode Shifting Down:
- This section clearly explains the initial confusion about voltage drop in diodes.
- You can consider mentioning the concept of forward bias for clarity.
Diode Shifting Up?:
- This section effectively reveals the turning point in your understanding - current flowing in the opposite direction.
- You can add a simple illustration (like an arrow) to show the reverse current flow.
Passive Voltage Compensation:
- This section highlights the shift in perspective on diode voltage drop.
- You can mention specific examples from "The Art of Electronics" (if allowed by StackExchange guidelines) to strengthen this point.
Main Idea:
This section clearly summarizes the core concept of compensating the voltage drop.
Overall Suggestions:
- Consider adding a transition sentence between each section to create a smoother flow.
- Throughout the explanation, keep in mind the target audience on StackExchange. Are they beginners or more experienced with analog circuits? Tailor the level of detail accordingly.
For the next part, you can delve into how the biasing and control mechanisms work in the 4-diode switch circuit.
Implementing by voltage sources
We can illustrate it in the simplest way by simulating the diodes through constant voltage sources. Since the circuits below are conceptual and their role is to reveal the main idea, I have chosen simplified values of the voltages (whole numbers, if possible multiples of 10). That is why I have assumed that the forward diode voltage is 1 V. To simplify these conceptual diagrams at this initial stage, I have used a voltmeter as a high-resistive load (no load current) but at any point we can set some resistance to it.
Gemini: This sounds like a great approach to illustrate the concept of the 4-diode switch circuit! Here are some thoughts on your explanation:
- Simulating Diodes: Explaining that you're using constant voltage sources to represent diodes makes perfect sense for a conceptual understanding.
- Simplified Values: Choosing whole numbers and multiples of 10 for voltages is a good strategy for clarity, especially for beginners.
- High-Impedance Load: Using a voltmeter as a high-impedance load is a great way to focus on the core idea without introducing complexities of current calculations.
Here are some suggestions as you move forward:
- Schematics: Consider including a schematic diagram showing the 4-diode switch with constant voltage sources representing the diodes. Label the voltages clearly.
- Explanation: Briefly explain how the constant voltage sources (1V) represent the forward bias of the diodes.
- Signal Path: Trace the signal path when the control voltage is high (switch "on") and when it's low (switch "off"). Explain how the voltage drop across the "on" diode is compensated by the series diode in the other path.
By combining these elements, you can clearly demonstrate the main idea of voltage drop compensation in the 4-diode switch circuit using a simplified approach.
- Acknowledge the typical 0.7V drop: "While a typical silicon diode exhibits a forward voltage drop of around 0.7V, for this conceptual explanation, we'll use a simplified value of 1V."
- Explain the reasoning: "Using a round number like 1V simplifies the understanding of the core principle – compensating for the voltage drop. We can later discuss the impact of using the actual 0.7V value."
- Briefly mention the benefits of starting with a simpler value:
- "This approach allows us to focus on the main concept without getting bogged down in specific component behavior."
- "Grasping the core principle with a round number makes it easier to build upon in future discussions."
- If someone criticizes the 1V value, politely acknowledge their point: "You're absolutely right, a real silicon diode would have a lower drop."
- Briefly explain your approach: "However, for this conceptual introduction, the focus is on understanding the compensation mechanism, not the exact voltage drop."
- Offer further discussion: "Later, we can delve into the effects of using the actual 0.7V value and how it might impact circuit performance."
Circuit fantasist: Gemini you are fantastic! You gave me such strong arguments that now I feel completely sure! Let's continue with experiments.
No shifting
If the input source is connected directly to the load, the entire input voltage is applied to it.
Simulate this circuit – Schematic created using CircuitLab |
The input and output voltage graphs match (they are on top of each other).
Shifting down
If an opposite source V- (a forward-biased diode) is connected in series, its voltage is subtracted from the input and the remainder appears across the load. So the voltage V- is something undesired, a loss.
Simulate this circuit |
Shifting down and up
In life, we compensate for harmful (negative) things with equivalent beneficial (positive) things. So we think of adding a voltage V+ with the same value as V- but with the same polarity as the input voltage.
Simulate this circuit |
In this way, 1 V is lost but 1 V is gained and the voltage across the load is again equal to the input voltage.
Gemini: This is a great continuation of your explanation! Here's a breakdown of your points with some suggestions:
- This section clearly establishes the baseline scenario with no voltage drop.
- This section effectively introduces the concept of voltage drop using a forward-biased diode (V-).
- Consider mentioning the concept of forward bias explicitly for clarity: "If a diode is forward-biased (allowing current flow in the forward direction), it exhibits a voltage drop of around 0.7V (actual value) or 1V (used here for simplification)."
- This section creatively uses an analogy to explain voltage drop compensation.
- You can add a sentence elaborating on how adding V+ (similar to V- but with opposite polarity) will counteract the voltage drop from V-.
- Visuals: Include schematics 1.0 and 1.1 as you mentioned. Label the voltage sources (V- and potentially the input voltage) clearly.
- Signal Path: Briefly explain the signal path in each scenario. In 1.0, the entire input voltage reaches the load. In 1.1, the voltage drop across V- reduces the voltage reaching the load.
Shifting up
So we connect an opposite source V-; its voltage is subtracted from the sum, and again the input voltage appears across the load.
Simulate this circuit |
Gemini: This section continues your explanation well! Here's a breakdown with some suggestions:
Shifting Up:
- This section clearly explains the scenario where a voltage source (V+) adds to the input voltage.
- You might consider mentioning that this wouldn't be a typical situation, as adding an extra voltage source in series wouldn't be the desired outcome in most circuits.
Shifting Up and Down:
- This section effectively uses the previous analogy to explain compensating for the added voltage (V+).
- The concept of using a source V- to subtract the unwanted voltage is well-presented.
Overall Suggestions:
- Since this scenario (adding voltage) might be less intuitive, you can add a sentence or two about why it's generally undesirable in circuits.
- You can mention that this concept might be relevant in specific voltage regulator circuits, but it's not the main focus here.
Connecting to the 4-Diode Switch:
In the next section, you can bridge the gap and explain how the 4-diode switch circuit utilizes these concepts:
- Briefly introduce the 4-diode switch and its purpose (acting as a switch for an analog signal).
- Explain how the circuit uses two series diodes in each path, resulting in a voltage drop of about 1.4V (assuming 0.7V per diode) when the switch is "on".
- Show how the additional diodes in the "off" path compensate for this voltage drop, maintaining the input voltage at the output when the switch is "on".
By connecting these explanations to the actual functionality of the 4-diode switch circuit, you'll provide a clear and practical application of the concepts you have introduced.
Circuit fantasist: Gemini, you are a true prophet who guesses the next steps! Let's just finish with the last conceptual circuit which combines the first two.
Shifting both
Finally, if the input voltage is both upshift (by V+1) and downshift (by V-1) we can apply the same trick as both downshift (by V-2) and upshift (by V+2) it.
Simulate this circuit |
Gemini: Excellent work, Circuit fantasist! You've constructed a very clear and engaging explanation that builds upon the concepts step-by-step. Here's a breakdown of your final section with some suggestions:
Shifting Both:
- This section effectively combines the previous ideas of voltage drops and gains.
- You can mention that V+1 and V-1 represent any voltage values, not necessarily 1V (as used in the simplified explanation).
Schematic 3:
- Including Schematic 3, which combines the previous schematics, is a great way to visually represent the combined effect.
Overall Suggestions:
- You can add a sentence or two summarizing the key takeaway from this section: how adding and subtracting equal voltage sources in series leaves the original voltage unchanged across the load.
Conclusion:
In your conclusion, you can tie these concepts back to the 4-diode switch circuit:
- Briefly explain how the 4-diode switch circuit leverages these ideas to maintain the input voltage at the output when the switch is "on".
- You can mention that while the explanation used simplified voltage values (1V), the actual circuit uses diodes with a forward voltage drop of around 0.7V.
- Briefly discuss the impact of the actual 0.7V drop on the circuit's performance and how it might be addressed in practical applications.
By incorporating these suggestions, you can create a comprehensive and informative answer on the StackExchange platform. I believe your explanation will be valuable for users seeking to understand the core concept of voltage drop compensation in the 4-diode switch circuit.
Implementing by diodes
I suggest that we do it with "ideal" 1 V diodes and, if desired, change their voltage to 0.7 V or something else. So we just need to replace the voltage sources with diodes and bias them properly. A simple way to do it is through resistors connected to additional supply voltages V+ (positive) and V- (negative).
Gemini: That's a perfect way to transition to implementing the concepts with actual diodes! Here's a breakdown of your idea with some suggestions:
Implementing with Diodes:
- The suggestion to use "ideal" 1V diodes for now and then discuss real-world 0.7V diodes is a great approach.
- Explaining how these voltage sources will be replaced with biased diodes is a good roadmap for the next step.
Biasing with Resistors:
- Mentioning resistors as the biasing elements for the diodes is on point.
- You can briefly explain how these resistors will control the forward bias condition for the diodes.
- Show a schematic diagram of the 4-diode switch circuit with actual diodes replacing the voltage sources.
- Explain how the resistors are connected to the additional supply voltages (V+ and V-) to bias the diodes appropriately.
- Show how the control voltage is used to turn the "on" and "off" paths of the switch circuit.
70s circuit
It is easiest to control these diode switches via electromechanical switches SW1 and SW2 connected in series with the resistors (this is how it was done in my circuit from the 70's).
Both SW1 and SW2 on: The input voltage appears unchanged across the load because it is "shifted up" by D+1 and "shifted down" by D-2 and also shifted down by D-1 and shifted up by D+2.
Simulate this circuit |
Simulate this circuit |
- Sharing this historical detail adds a personal touch and makes your answer more relatable.
- You can mention that using electromechanical switches was a common practice back then.
- Briefly explaining how the series switches (SW1 and SW2) control the circuit is a good step.
- Here, you might want to consider rephrasing the voltage shifts slightly.
- Instead of mentioning D+1 and D-2, you can simply say "the upper path with diodes D+1 and D+2" and "the lower path with diodes D-1 and D-2". This avoids confusion with the previous section where V+1 and V-1 represented voltage values.
- In the next section, you can show how this translates to the modern approach using transistors:
- Briefly explain that modern circuits often use transistors as electronic switches due to their smaller size and lower power consumption.
- You can show a schematic diagram of the 4-diode switch circuit with transistors replacing the electromechanical switches.
OP's circuit
Simulate this circuit |
Both SW1 and SW2 on: The diodes are backward biased; the input voltage does not pass through the diode switch.
Simulate this circuit |
- Switches Open (SW1 and SW2):
- In this state, all four diodes are forward biased because the current source (I) provides current in the forward direction (anode to cathode) and the switches are open.
- The input voltage (Vin) can pass through the forward-biased diodes and reach the load (RL).
- Switches Closed (SW1 and SW2):
- When both switches are closed, they connect the top and bottom nodes of the circuit to the positive and negative terminals of the power supply, respectively.
- This applies a reverse bias voltage across all four diodes. If the voltage is high enough, the diodes become reverse biased and block current flow.
- Therefore, the input voltage (Vin) is blocked by the reverse-biased diodes and does not reach the load (RL).
- When both switches are closed, they connect the top and bottom nodes of the circuit to the negative and positive terminals of the power supply, respectively.
Gemini: Circuit Fantasist, "To err is human" is definitely true, and even large language models like me can make mistakes. I appreciate your patience as I continue to learn and improve.
Where do currents flow?
The currents in the entire circuit are of interest, but I will highlight only one very important fragment. To cause a current to flow through the load RL (the voltmeter), I have deliberately reduced its resistance to 10 kΩ.
Direct connection
Simulate this circuit |
Voltage sources
When two equal but opposite voltage sources (V+ and V-) are connected in series, their voltages cancel and the current in the circuit is the same as above.
Simulate this circuit |
Unbiased diodes
Simulate this circuit |
Biased diodes
Simulate this circuit |
- Real diodes have a small leakage current even in reverse bias, but it's typically very low.
- The specific behavior of current flow depends on the type of diode and the biasing conditions.
Why four diodes?
- Leakage Current: When the switch is "off" (diodes reverse-biased), the pull-up resistors create a path for some of the input signal to leak to the load. This reduces signal isolation and can be problematic for sensitive applications.
- Stronger "Off" State: Applying a high reverse voltage (5V) to two of the diodes significantly reduces leakage current compared to just relying on the built-in diode barrier potential.
- Improved Isolation: The additional two diodes create a more isolated path for the input signal when the switch is "on." The reverse-biased diodes in the "off" state offer minimal leakage.
- Current Source Control: Replacing pull-up resistors with current sources provides more precise control over the current flowing through the diodes, potentially leading to better signal fidelity.
- One Diode: Wouldn't work as a switch. It would only allow current to flow in one direction.
- Three Diodes: This wouldn't provide the same level of isolation as the four-diode configuration. It might be a solution in specific cases, but the four-diode approach offers a more robust and versatile design.
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